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Ashachor posted to Ashacube -

Legends is hard, there aren't enough cards.
Tokens isn't fun to deal with in a physical sense. Having to keep a million tokens available and then dig through them during the games are a hassle.

The entire archetype is getting replaced with +1/+1 counters.

The "planeswalkers matters" primary theme in red made balancing the cube very difficult. The card pool for that archetype is very narrow so I had to throw in nearly every playable red walker. I want an archetype that I have better control over and plays better with the cube as a whole.

I decided to pivot into "treasures matters". This is a very commander-only theme. You will find cards in constructed formats that create treasure, but it generally isn't the whole purpose of the deck. There is a huge number of cards that create treasure and use treasure. Those cards also overlap heavily with artifacts matter, and are generally playable in aggressive tempo decks. Both of the enemy pairs this cube wants to focus on.

Pros:
Better support and larger card pool
More flexibility in the color as a whole
I don't have to balance around an entire deck not have creatures
I don't have to balance around colors needing dedicated planeswalker removal
Plays better with RW artifacts and UR tempo
Can build combo with Magda + Hellkite Tyrant
Can build aggro with Painful Distributor, Swashbuckler Extraordinaire, and Crime Novelist

Cons:
I lose Transmogrify
Might make the cube feel too artifact heavy
Lots of work to rip out an entire archetype and rebalance everything
Feels more "generic" and less narrow that I originally wanted for the cube
A "treasure" archetype can mean a lot of things from storm, dragons, dwarves, artifacts in play, welder and I have to figure out what I actually want

It's been a little bit since I've had the time and motivation to update this cube. As a note, I haven't tested any of these changes, so let me know your thoughts.

Similar to commander it feels like the early turns are just set up for the late game. Most games are a back and forth of fighting over Inferno Titan not playing small games of incremental value. I want to lean into that a bit more.

This cube is meant to be a quick thing that people can do during events or while waiting for people to show up to FNM. I want a lot of interaction and back and forth, but not over small things. Similar to the Dandan cube, but with bigger splashier effects.

So lets give players more tools to do splashy big games that end quickly. Hurl Through Hell, for example, lets players come back from the brink and set up for a large swing.

I also want to remove some of the cards that didn't really do much. I've noticed that pumping mana into anything that doesn't forward your board state isn't a good idea. Spending mana on mazemind tome or hypnotic grifter puts you further behind.

Specific Cards

Three Steps Ahead looks like a fun card that can impact the game in a variety of ways. Let's try that over Grifter.

Tinybones, the Pickpocket Is a much cooler way of doing the same thing that Isareth does and comes down earlier. It does trigger on damage instead of attack, which might cause issues.

Magda, the Hoardmaster and Robber of the Rich fulfill pretty similar roles. Let's try out the new card.

Wildborn Preserver always felt pretty mid. I like choices that Outcaster Trailblazer gives you. Play it as an early creature or take an early turn off to let you play an off-color spell next turn.

Trygon Predator was almost always a vanilla 2/3 flier. Let's try something new.

Dream-Thief's Bandana is a color agnostic way of providing the "on hit draw" effect. It does require a creature to connect, so this change might get reverted.

Icingdeath, Frost Tyrant is a cool card, but the equipment doesn't come up that much. This change is mostly to try something new. I want to see if Magus of the Moat just stalls games or if it's an interesting tool that players can use to skirt an opponent's big threats.

Monastery Mentor doesn't have much support in the cube.

Sunset Revelry is pretty mid most of the time. Get Lost seems like a cool removal spell that also gives the cube a tool against Glare of Subdual in a single color.

Pack Rat was kind of mid. I thought it would be cool for the player that wanted to hate-draft off color cards and not get punished, but it didn't really work out.

Soulflayer is hard to get working. Unshakable Tail seems pretty interesting and plays well with recursion.

Sea-Dasher never really did much.

Daxos of Meletis never did much and has way too much text.

Gallia of the Endless Dance was generally a pretty good aggressive play, but it did feel out of place a lot. I want to try out Bloodbraid Elf to see how cascade feels as an effect.

Knight of Autumn is a good card, but I want to try out other cards.

Hydroid Krasis doesn't play well with the cube's general theme of steal your opponents stuff.

Maybeboard

Smirking Spelljacker seems like a really cool way to stop your opponent's bomb and set up for later. I don't really want to cut Mystic Confluence or Shark Typhoon, but I may try it out in a few games.

If I don't like Bloodbraid Elf I may try out Gruul Spellbreaker as an aggressive gruul card.

Ashachor posted to Ashacube -

I finally got a chance to run the cube. Here's what I learned.

Results

We had 6 people drafting. We did a rotisserie draft, so I still haven't learned if the 8 person draft is going to have any issues.

The drafted decks were mono red walkers, mono green, mono blue, RW artifacts, Grixis? cheaty face, and 4 color control. I was on the mono blue tempo deck.

Mono green went 3-0. Artifacts and Walkers were 2nd and 3rd.

Deck Opinions

It felt like creature decks had a hard time dealing with non-creature decks. The planeswalker decks were really good at stabilizing and turning the corner. The mono green deck didn't have this issue because it's creatures were "bombier".

In the matches I played against the artifact deck it felt like I (blue tempo) didn't have the tools necessary to interact with my opponent. Equilibrium felt super slow and my opponent built a board with lightning speed. The ward on Patchwork Automaton meant tempo was far to inefficient and I wasn't able to close out the game by the time he got to Bronze Guardian. However, Looping Thieving Skydiver with Ninjas felt amazing, but not too strong (given what my opponent was doing). Thada Adel never came up, I think the lack of Spreading Seas made the card feel pretty bad.

The Cheaty Face player felt like there wasn't really enough support (there really isn't), so their deck didn't do the thing all that much and when it did it wasn't enough to carry the game. When he played against 4c control getting a t3 Locust God (Scrapwork Mutt into Exhume) wasn't enough to secure the win.

I'm surprised that 4c control was even a deck. It didn't do well, but the pilot didn't have any feedback about it. The deck played as he expected and he had fun.

Card Opinions

Polukranos Reborn is too strong for the environment. None of the decks can easily deal with a large creature on t3, and reach means that blue can't easily deal with it.

Wildfire was meant to be a red walker only card, and it is, but to some drafters it telegraphs a different style of deck which isn't possible in this environment.

All Will Be One doesn't actually contribute to any deck. The red walker deck already has enough ways to close a game that this isn't necessary.

Curiosity was just bad. It doesn't play well with the ninjas and the blue deck never really wanted to get 2-for-1'd by playing it out. The other decks were able to deal with single creatures pretty easily.

The artifact player mentioned that Osgir never really did anything. That player also didn't think Oswald was worth picking during the draft. I think I should add more support for a Welder style deck with red as a basis that cares more about artifact graveyard shenanigans.

Luxior was actively terrible. It negatively impacts the planeswalker deck by removing a planeswalker from the board, which was impactful enough that it was removed from the deck. I think this card is a trap for the walker deck. Some decks may still want it, but I don't think it's worth it for how much pain it will ultimately cause.

Conclusions

I want to adjust the green deck a bit away from how bomb-y it is to something more synergy focused. The legends are a good start, but you aren't really punished for straying from that all the cards are really good on their own. I think I could add a tokens matter theme pretty easily with cards like Halsin, Emerald Archdruid and Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter and cut some of the more powerful on their own cards like Polukranos.

Walkers and White artifacts are in a pretty good spot. I don't think those decks need much adjustments. Though, I do want to include some more tools for creature decks to deal with walkers.

I want full support for a polymorph and/or welder deck. A few more ways to create tokens cheaply and some bigger top end cards to cheat in. Blue should have some support cards for the polymorph deck. White is already positioned well for welder support, but red isn't.

Blue should go harder on ninjas and control effects. Blue is fine at dealing with non-ward creatures, but really bad at non-creature permanents. The best the deck felt was when I was doing ninja value stuff and so much worse when just playing straight tempo.

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